BM27b#2

The proof from ת"ש אין מעידין אלא על פרצוף הפנים is, that:

• סימנים are from the Torah

• סימנים are from the Rabbanan

• Not from the Torah

• Not from the Rabanan

The implication from ת"ש אין מעידין - that the only identification is by the face with the noes is, that:

• Children can't inherit if there are only סימנים.

• His wife may not remarry if there are only סימנים.

• He may not get a Jewish burial if there are only סימנים.

The response of אָמְרִי גּוּפוֹ דְּאָרוּךְ וְגוּץ is, that סימנים are good, but here they are not acceptable because:

• The סימנים presented "he was tall/short" which are very vague.

• The סימנים presented are not permanent, can easily change.

The response of כֵּלָיו דְּחַיְישִׁינָן לְשָׁאֲלָה is, that סימנים are good, but here they are not acceptable because:

• Garments can be borrowed, therefore it may be his clothing but not the him.

• סימנים of garments are not permanent, can easily be tailored to size.

• There are so many of the same type.

• סימנים of garments are, can easily be copied.

Even people lend/borrow garments, they won't do so with a donkey saddle because:

• It needs to be a perfect fit, otherwise it will scratch the donkey

• It is very expensive, therefore people don't lend them out.

• The only way to identify the donkey is by it's saddle.

• The donkey needs to saddle the entire time to keep it warm.

The response of אִיבָעֵית אֵימָא כֵּלָיו בְּחִיוְרֵי וּבְסוּמָקֵי is, that סימנים are good, but here they are not acceptable because:

• The סימנים presented was the color "white/red" etc. which are very vague.

• The סימנים presented are not permanent, can easily change.

The Gemarah of "אֵלָּא הָא דְתַנְיָא מְצָאוֹ קָשׁוּר בְּכִיס אוֹ בְּאַרְנָקִי וּבְטַבַּעַת" is asking on:

• כֵּלָיו דְּחַיְישִׁינָן לְשָׁאֲלָה.

• אִיבָעֵית אֵימָא כֵּלָיו בְּחִיוְרֵי וּבְסוּמָקֵי

• אָמְרִי גּוּפוֹ דְּאָרוּךְ וְגוּץ.

The Braisa of: אֵלָּא הָא דְתַנְיָא מְצָאוֹ קָשׁוּר בְּכִיס ... אֲפִילּוּ לִזְמַן מְרוּבָּה כָּשֵׁר, indicates that:

• People don't lend out personal things like clothing, since we can only be sure the גט belongs to the owner of the purse it's tied to, if we are sure it was not lent out.

• The presented סימנים were not colors (red/white), otherwise the גט attached to the purse should be disqualified when the סימן is very vague?

the response of אָמְרִי כִּיס וְאַרְנָקִי וְטַבַּעַת לֹא משאלי אִינְשֵׁי is that:

• A purse, wallet and ring are unique, people don't lend them out.

• The sign identifying a purse wallet or ring, is more then just the color. therefore acceptable

People don't lend out a purse or a wallet because:

• Of superstition

• They symbolise selling ones luck / financial success.

• The wallet / purse might have some personal items in it

• The wallet / purse might have some expensive items it it